Covering a Health Crisis — André Picard

Alex Maheux

Hi, welcome to the CHIP, the Canadian Health Information Podcast. I’m your host, Alex Maheux. In this show from the Canadian Institute for Health Information, we’ll give you an in-depth look at Canada’s health systems and talk to patients and experts you can trust. Join me as I go beyond the data to find out more about the work being done to keep us all healthy.

Today we’re talking with the one and only André Picard, renowned Health Columnist for The Globe and Mail. André is also a best-selling author who has received honorary doctorates from 6 different universities. We’re chatting with him about what it’s like to report during the pandemic, how social media has dramatically changed his work, and the long-term effects we hope COVID has had on Canada’s health systems.

Hi, André, welcome to the CHIP, how are you doing? I see you’ve grown a bit of a pandemic beard.

André Picard

Not too bad, thanks. 

Alex Maheux

So, André, I’ll dive right in. Your name is synonymous with health reporting in Canada, and as a renowned journalist, your reputation is so critical to the work you do. I’m wondering, how did you go about building the trust with your sources and your audience from your early career?

André Picard

Yeah. I don’t think it was anything planned or deliberate, it just kind of — I kind of fell into this, into health reporting and you just get to know people over the years and keep going back to good sources, keep getting better and learning your stuff slowly and gradually. And I don’t think there’s any magic formula to it; it’s like any job, you learn on the job and you hopefully get better at it.

Alex Maheux

Well, you certainly have. I’ll take you back a little bit, actually, to earlier on in your career to what was potentially one of the very 1st crises you experienced as a report you may remember very well, the Krever Report, well known as the Tainted Blood Tragedy in the 1980s in which thousands of people were exposed to HIV and Hepatitis C through contaminated blood. I mention this because I think there are some similar and interesting parallels between that crisis and the one we’re currently finding ourselves in, COVID. What are some of the similarities you experience in both of these and maybe what’s changed in journalism since then?

André Picard

Yeah. So I think a couple of things. One is AIDS has kind of been the arc of my career, I started as a student journalist in the early ’80s when AIDS was coming along. We were very interested in the campus press about that. I went to The Globe, I started covering AIDS because essentially no one else wanted to, it was not a big issue in that mainstream press. And, you know, 40 years later, I’m still writing a lot about AIDS, so I think that’s an interesting – that’s really shaped my career, and I think it has shaped the way I cover things. To me, health is primarily political and it’s a policy issue, it’s not a medical issue, so I don’t really cover medicine, I do the policy stuff. The policy geek stuff, if you will, and I’ve done that all along. And I think that’s important and it speaks to — I think what something like COVID has done is remind us of the importance of policy, that policies really shape our lives. Government has been very intrusive during COVID, for good reason, but it reminds us of how they can really change our lives individually and collectively. And that, to me, is a lesson that I learned earlier on from AIDS, is that you can really make a difference and you can stop a pandemic, you can slow it or you can allow it to go out of control, depending on the policies you have and how you use data and how you talk to the public. So all of these things are really important.

The 2nd part of your question, how has journalism changed? Well, it’s changed profoundly. When I speak to journalism students, I have the pleasure of doing some teaching, I always tell them horror stories. For them a horror story is I didn’t used to have a cell phone or a laptop or anything like that. We used pen and paper and computers, I remember, before laptops. So the technology has really changed. But even more profoundly, the way we deliver news has changed. You know, journalism, you know, comes from the French word jour, so the news of the day, and that doesn’t exist anymore. It’s minutalism now. Every minute there’s something being posted new on our website, on the internet. So there is this real push for speed, and I think less push to do things more thoughtfully and profoundly. And maybe I’m old-fashioned, I take my time to do stuff. I don’t really worry about, you know, if somebody else scoops you. That is not something that really matters to me, and it never has, and I think it kind of shapes the way I do my job too.

Alex Maheux

Well, I was actually going to ask you to elaborate a bit on that. During this pandemic, it’s been the 1st world-wide pandemic you’ve had to deal with in your career, and facts change on the daily, if not hourly, or by the minute sometimes. How do you handle that as a reporter? You said sometimes you don’t let that bother you, you are sticking to the facts and kind of putting your head down. But it must have changed a little bit the way you do things.

André Picard

Yeah, you know, it matters that you have to try and keep up with this, but I think the trick is not to get caught up in every little development; you have to try and keep things in context. That’s really what I have the luxury of doing as a columnist, is to provide context to what’s going on. So that’s what I’ve always tried to do. That used to be much easier to do as a daily reporter, because literally there was just one deadline a day. You know, you filed at night and it was in the paper the next morning, and it was impactful back then. Now the impact is much more diffused. Your story can be up there for a minute and then it’s gone and it’s overtaken by something else. 

So it is a very different environment, but I think what remains really fundamentally the same is people want the information, they want help sorting things out in their mind. And that’s actually become much more important than ever because we have this huge firehose called the internet, and somebody needs to help them figure stuff out: what’s important, what isn’t, what should I read, what shouldn’t I read?

Alex Maheux

Absolutely. I think that’s a really critical role, especially now more than ever. I want to ask, obviously the pandemic has been extremely stressful for everyone, and for you I can only imagine the stress that comes along with having to report on this and really being in the trenches of COVID data and kind of being bombarded with this every day. But I think what’s been extremely difficult for a lot of people is the fact that personally they are going through a lot at the same time. I know for you, you released a book on long-term care, a very heavy topic during the pandemic as well. And I know you’ve spoken publicly about the fact that you’ve lost a loved one through the pandemic who was in long-term care as well. How have you been coping with all of this personally and how do you kind of juggle having to deal with it in every aspect of your life?

André Picard

I think, 1st of all, I think as journalists we write about the worst of the worst. I think we get — very early on in this we recognize our privilege. I’m lucky that I have a job, that I’ve had lots of opportunity to do things like publish a book, to do speaking, etcetera, so it’s actually been good for me, so I don’t feel I have any right to complain about anything. But there is a lot of work, you know, it’s just been this relentless 20 months almost now of just it never stops. You don’t really have holidays, stuff like that. Our bosses have been very good about that to make sure people have some semblance of work-life balance, but some of us are better at that than others. I’m lucky in that my kids are grown up, so I don’t have the stresses of, you know, nothing — this pandemic has been really hard on certain demographics, no question. Working women with young children have been hardest hit. People, seniors in institutional care, racialized workers, those are the people who are suffering, and I’m not in any of those categories. I am very privileged and I recognize that and I try and use my voice and my privilege to have more time to help inform people.

Alex Maheux

You mentioned you’re using your voice to help inform people, and your voice is backed by data. CIHI is focussed on sharing reliable data to help improve Canada’s health systems, but we’re just one of the many organizations that provide data and information. I can only imagine how many emails you get a day. How do you vet what’s trustworthy when there’s so much information coming at you?

André Picard

Yeah, that gets harder over the years because everybody has a platform now. You used to know sort of the basics, but you go back to the old reliable sources. You know, CIHI is obviously something I depend on a lot because, as you said, it is trusted data, it’s Canadian data that’s not always easy to come by. We often rely on American stuff and, you know, make that — divide by 10 formula which always isn't accurate. But, you know, you go to the trusted sources, you go to the big agencies, the ones you know are doing this properly, the Stats Cans, the US CDC, etcetera. That has to be the core of it, and the other stuff you have to treat with a little bit more skepticism.

Alex Maheux

You mentioned too not only are you sharing data on the website and through the articles that you write, but since you’ve started reporting, you’re now also on Twitter and you’re on social media and there’s tons of information available for people at their fingertips. But I think on the flipside of that, there is also a lot of misinformation that can easily be found. How do you think that social media has helped or hindered your ability to share timely and verified health data?

André Picard

Yeah, for me, you know, I’m a little too obsessive about Twitter. I spend way too much time on there. But to me it’s just another tool that came into my toolbox along the way. I mentioned before I didn’t used to have cell phones or laptops or the internet, and I’ve just kind of incorporated it into my work. And I think like any tool, you can use it well or you can use it badly. So I think who you follow matters, so you follow reliable sources and you try and not share unreliable stuff. So there’s some responsibility that comes in there. But to me it’s almost like my Twitter feed is, you know, I look at it as something I curate. So I share news that I think is reliable and important and that other people will want to read. And I, you know, I’m lucky that I have a lot of followers and I think they follow me because they can’t find that elsewhere, just sort of a curated non-judgemental; I’ll share things I don’t agree with, I share things I agree with, but I try not to share total nonsense or unreliable stuff. 

Alex Maheux

Well, I’m always so amazed by how quickly you turn things around on your social media accounts. I’m sure I’m not the only one, because I’ll mention you have quite a following on Twitter, about 130,000 followers. You’re constantly sharing articles, studies, how do you vet so quickly what can be retweeted and shared on a platform like yours that’s such a trusted source of information?

André Picard

You know, people often ask me and say, “Well, you waste a lot of time on Twitter.” And that’s true, but I used to literally come into my office and I’d have a stack of 10 newspapers and I’d read through them. That’s the way I work and I’ve always worked. And now I just — it’s much more easy to do. I could read 30 different publications because they’re available online. And what I do that’s different from 30 or 40 years ago, is I actually say, oh, here’s an interesting thing I read, I’ll share it. And that’s what Twitter is to me. 

I try and read everything before I retweet it. I think that’s an important basic thing, not everyone does that. So I have some sense of its, you know, legitimate. Sometimes I make a mistake and I get rid of stuff or people don’t like it, but I think it’s just about sharing the stuff that comes in the firehose. I try and share little bits of it, maybe like a sprinkler or something. I don’t know if that’s a good analogy, but.

Alex Maheux

Well, I mean, I certainly appreciate your Twitter account. I have to say I’ve read — Stats Can did a survey where they found that during the pandemic, just one in 5 Canadians checked the accuracy of online COVID information. But at the same time, more than half shared the information without knowing it was correct or not. 

André Picard

Yeah, that doesn’t surprise me at all. You know, I think people just don’t have a lot of analysis, they haven’t learned how to do this. So I think, you know, there’s no question the biggest spreaders of misinformation are people in my demographic. So older people. They have a problem. I have some confidence that things will get better because younger people, I see them on social media, they’re much more sophisticated. They know how to vet stuff, they know how to spot BS, they know how to not share, they know how to share properly. And I think all this stuff has to be taught. We have to do a better job of education, and my generation missed out on that. We just got this stuff thrown onto us like Facebook and Twitter, and we didn’t really learn how to do it properly, and we’re a big part of the problem. It’s fixable, but it’s going to take time.

Alex Maheux

What do you think about the rise of activists and influencers on social media, like Vax Hunters, and how they try to use those platforms?

André Picard

Yeah, I think groups like Vax Hunters are really interesting as kind of data activists. So the official data, you know, the CIHI, Stats Canada is important, but it’s been important for these groups to do things that governments should be doing and weren’t, or were refusing to do because it was a bit embarrassing for them. So they really — these are really important groups and they’ve shown that social media can be used for good and not just for evil, you know. And I hope we get a lot more of this. So many people live in that social media world now, that the activist have to get in there and they have to use the platforms in new and interesting ways. And, again, Vax Hunters, I think, is a really good example of a group that did fabulous good in society and did it with very few resources and did it in a really innovative and fascinating way.

Alex Maheux

Mm-hmm. It’s been incredible to watch. I want to ask, I’m sure with all of the followers you have and the many times a day that you do share things, you must get a lot of comments. How do you deal with the backlash or the comment section of your social media, or even just your website and the articles you post?

André Picard

Yeah, there is a lot of feedback. There’s a tendency for people who are negative to be more outspoken, if I could put it generously that way. So, you know, I just kind of over the years you develop a think skin about these things. Again, I think context is important. I recognize that my colleagues who are women, who are racialized, have it a thousand times worse than me. So again, I am privileged in this regard. I do get a lot of so-called hate mail, but I kind of let it grow old. Sometimes I make fun of it. I try not to do that too much, I try not to engage, but sometimes just some stuff is very laughable and you have to call people out. But otherwise, I think it is a big problem, but I think we have to deal with this, especially with women, with racialized workers, the hate speech has to be dealt with. The other stuff is fine. If people don’t like what I write, that doesn’t bother me.

Alex Maheux

Well, I’m glad you can let stuff roll off your shoulder, because the vast majority of people do appreciate it. On the flipside of that, André, what keeps you up at night worrying?

André Picard

Well, I think as a journalist you’re always worried that you’re not up to date, you know, the FOMO problem, the fear of missing out on a story is ever-present for us. I think there’s the fear of getting it wrong. You know, I columnize, so I essentially give advice or opinions, and you worry, you know, if I say — I wrote a column early in the pandemic which got a lot of attention and literally millions of hits saying, “You know, we have to shut down society. We have to have the lockdown.” And, you know, when you say something like that, you put yourself out there. If that’s a mistake, then you worry that you’ve done something horrible. I think that one turned out OK. I think it was the right call, but you do worry about do I have the right opinion? Am I stating it the right way?

Alex Maheux

What happens when things do go wrong?

André Picard

Well, sometimes you eat crow, you know. You just, hey listen, you write another column and I say, “I got that wrong the last time.” And that’s fine. And I don’t have any problem doing that, admitting mistakes. I think that’s a process. I think journalism is very much like science; it’s self-correcting over time. But there’s no question we make mistakes. And, you know, some people think that invalidates what you do, and it doesn’t. I think it’s quite the opposite. If you’re transparent about this as things are moving, they’re changing, and we change and we adapt.

Alex Maheux

Mm-hmm. Well, I think that speaks to how you’ve gained trust among your followers too. When the dust settles from the pandemic, and it will — it will, right? Let’s say there’s one thing that will have changed for the better, what do you hope that will be?

André Picard

Well, I think there’s — I hope there’s lots of things that change. I think my personal interests or my obsession through the pandemic has been with elder care. I think this is an opportunity to profoundly change the way we treat elders in society. I think we have to remember that nobody has suffered more. You know, we’ve had 28,000 deaths in Canada, and 18,000 of those have been in long-term care institutions. They’ve been the most vulnerable people in society, our parents and grandparents. And if that doesn’t make us change, that will make me lose hope, and I tend to be a pretty hopeful person, but this is really an opportunity to learn from that carnage and change things pretty fundamentally for all of us. And I think it is an issue. I’ve got an interest in this for personal reasons; I’ve had parents in long-terms care. But I just recognize it as a societal issue that’s so large, you know, we’re an ageing society. Every one of us is going to be a caregiver or a care receiver in the years or decades to come, and we have a personal interest in fixing this as individuals and a society. 

Alex Maheux

Mm-hmm, absolutely. André, thank you for your leadership, your wisdom and thank you so much for joining us today. I’m sure we've all learned a lot.

André Picard

Thanks, it was a pleasure to chat.

Alex Maheux

Thanks for listening. Check in next time when we bring you more valuable health care topics and perspectives.

If you want to learn more about CIHI, visit our website: cihi.ca. That's C-I-H-I-dot-C-A. And if you like what you heard, subscribe where you find your podcasts and give us a follow on social media.

This episode was produced by Ramon Syyap and our Executive Producer is Jonathan Kuejlein. 

I'm Alex Maheux, talk to you next time.

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